Song 8:5 – TIPs

desert / wilderness

The Greek, Hebrew and Latin that is translated as “desert” or “wilderness” in English is translated in a number of ways:

Mairasi: “a place where noisiness is cut off (or: stops)” (source: Enggavoter 2004)
Muna: pandaso bhalano pr “big barren-field” (source: René van den Berg)
Balinese: “barren field” (source: J.L. Swellengrebel in The Bible Translator 1950, p. 75ff. )
Wantoat: “uninhabited place” (source: Holzhausen 1991, p. 38)
Umiray Dumaget Agta: “where no people dwell” (source: Larson 1998, p. 98)
Shipibo-Conibo: “where no house is” (source: James Lauriault in The Bible Translator 1951, p. 32ff. )
Amri Karbi: “waterless region/place” (source: Philippova 2021, p. 368)
Ocotlán Zapotec: “large empty place” (source: B. Moore / G. Turner in Notes on Translation 1967, p. 1ff.)
Pa’o Karen: “jungle” (denoting a place without any towns, villages and tilled fields) (source: Gordon Luce in The Bible Translator 1950, p. 153f. )
Low German translation by Johannes Jessen, publ. 1933, republ. 2006: “steppe”
Yakan: “the lonely place” (source: Yakan Back Translation)
Western Bukidnon Manobo: “a land where no people lived” (source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
Kankanaey: “the place with no inhabitants” (source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
Matumbi uses various term: lubele (desert, sandy place without water) — used in John 11:54, lupu’ngu’ti (a place where no people live, can be a scrub land, a forest, or a savanna) — used in Mark 1:3 et al.), and mwitu (a forest, a place where wild animals live) — used in Mark 1:13 et al.) (Source: Pioneer Bible Translators, project-specific notes in Paratext)
Chichewa Contemporary translation (2002/2016): chipululu: a place uninhabited by people with thick forest and bush (source: Mawu a Mulungu mu Chichewa Chalero Back Translation)

Note that in Luke 15:4, usually a term is used that denotes pastoral land, such as “eating/grazing-place” in Tagbanwa (source: Tagbanwa Back Translation).

See also wilderness and desolate wilderness.

The Hebrew and Greek that is translated as “bear (a child)” or “give birth to” is translated in Mairasi as “go to the forest,” reflecting the traditional place of childbirth for Mairasi women. (Source: Enggavoter 2004)

In Spanish it is translated as dar a luz, literally “to give to light.” Likewise, in Portuguese (dar à luz) and Italian (dare alla luce). (Source: Mark Terwilliger)

See also in childbirth / travail and birth.

apple

The Wild Apple (or Crab Apple) Malus sylvestris is the ancestor of the sweet fruit we know today Malus domestica. The domestication may have occurred in what is now Iran, Armenia, Turkey, or Syria. Apples have grown in Europe, in western Asia, and probably in Turkey and Lebanon, for several thousand years. The question for Bible scholars is whether the puny, rather tart fruit of the wild apple merits the glowing description we find in Proverbs 25:11: “. . . like apples of silver in a set-ting of gold,” and in Song of Songs 2:5: “Sustain me with raisins, refresh me with apples; for I am sick with love.” With that doubt in mind, some scholars have suggested that the tapuach, whose pleasant smell is noted in Song of Songs 7:8, is the apricot. Zohary (Plants of the Bible. Cambridge University Press, 1982) favors the apple on linguistic grounds, citing the Arabic cognate tuffach, which refers to the apple, and Egyptian records from 1298–1235 B.C. that refer to taph (probably the same as tapuach) growing in the Nile Valley. It is possible that improved varieties had already been developed in biblical times. Zohary points out that the apricot appeared in the region much later than the apple.

The apple tree reaches to 5-10 meters (17-33 feet), has a rounded crown, and bears a round fruit about the size of an orange. In the spring the tree is completely covered with pink flowers, which gradually give way to the green of the leaves as they develop. The fruit can be greenish, yellow, or red.

Apples grow well only in temperate climates where the tree is frozen part of the year, so there are no close native relatives in tropical Africa or Asia. However, fruits grown in Europe and South Africa are being shipped to many African countries, and so have become well-known, at least in the cities, usually by a name from a major international language. We recommend transliteration from a well-known language (for example, tufa [Arabic], pom/pomier [French], manzano [Spanish], masa/masiyera [Portuguese], and apel [English]), although translators seeking literary equivalence may wish to find a cultural substitute in the Proverbs and Song of Songs passages.

Source: Each According to its Kind: Plants and Trees in the Bible (UBS Helps for Translators)

complete verse (Song of Solomon 8:5)

Following are a number of back-translations as well as a sample translation for translators of Song of Solomon 8:5:

Kupsabiny: “Who is the girl over there who is coming from the bush
being together with her beloved?
I aroused you under the guava tree
where your mother conceived you
and she conceived you there.” (Source: Kupsabiny Back Translation)
Newari: “Who is this coming up from the wilderness
holding closely her beloved?
Under the apple tree I roused you,
there your mother conceived you,
there, she was in labor and gave birth to you.” (Source: Newari Back Translation)
Hiligaynon: “Who (is) this coming-toward from the desolate-place leaning on her beloved?
I awakened your (sing.) feeling under the trunk of the apple/(apple tree), where you (sing.) were-born.” (Source: Hiligaynon Back Translation)
English: “Who is that woman who is coming up from the desert,
leaning on/clinging close to the man who loves her?
I woke you up when you were under the apple tree
at the place where your mother conceived you,
which is the same place where she gave birth to you.” (Source: Translation for Translators)

Translation commentary on Song of Songs 8:5

As noted above, this is a very difficult verse, because we cannot immediately identify the speaker or the relationship between the two parts of the verse.

Who is that coming up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved?: for a third time “Who?” opens a discourse. But who is asking the question? Good News Translation, Jerusalem Bible, and New International Version believe it is the chorus, or the daughters. It appears that the lovers are walking together, and some other person(s) is asking the question. The most reasonable solution is perhaps that the daughters are indeed speaking, as was the case in 3.6.

The Who? question here raises another problem. In other contexts these questions have introduced wasfs or descriptions, or they set a scene for what is to come. Here there is no direct answer to the question. (The same was true in 5.9). Our solution here is to see the question as also setting the scene for what follows by bringing the young woman back into the picture.

Who is that…?: the demonstrative that is feminine singular and is generally thought to point to the young woman, especially when later in the verse there is mention of “her beloved.” The latter phrase indicates that people already know who it is, otherwise they would not know that the person accompanying her was her beloved. If necessary we can make the reference clear: “Who is this young woman coming out of the desert?” If we prefer to use a statement form, we can also say “Here she comes from the desert now, the young woman leaning on her lover’s arm.”

Coming up from the wilderness: see comments on this phrase in 3.6. If the word “desert” can be interpreted in a wide or figurative sense, meaning an empty, private place, we can imagine the lovers returning from their secret meeting together. This image of a couple coming up out of the wilderness may also be related to the shepherd image, which was so prominent in 1.7-8.

Leaning upon her beloved: the Hebrew participle leaning is from a root that occurs only here, so its meaning is uncertain. From related languages we can narrow its sense to “clinging to” or “leaning on.” A general expression like “leaning on [her lover]” or “holding closely to [her lover]” will serve well.

As noted above, the question form here is not a real question, so in many languages it will not be natural or even comprehensible. We can then render the question as an exclamation, expressing surprise or joy, “Look who is coming [back]…!”

Under the apple tree I awakened you: obviously there is a change of speaker here. Translations generally indicate this division by leaving a blank line between the two clauses, as in Revised Standard Version.

Our first question concerns the speaker. If we accept that the introduction in the previous half of the verse is presented by the chorus, then we presume it is one of the lovers speaking here. But which one? The problem is complicated by the fact that there are different versions of the ancient texts. The Hebrew text has first person verbs with masculine pronoun objects, “I awakened you [masculine].” This indicates that the young woman is speaking. However, the Syriac translation (second century A.D.) has feminine object markers, suggesting the young man is speaking. Both views can be found in translations. New English Bible, New American Bible, and Jerusalem Bible present the young man as the speaker, while Good News Translation, New International Version, Traduction œcuménique de la Bible, and Bible en français courant consider it to be the young woman. If the latter view is accurate, this is the first time the young man’s mother is referred to (see following line). We will follow the Hebrew text and suggest it is the young woman speaking.

We note that this verse is built on grammatical parallelism. Each poetic line begins with a location phrase: “under the apple tree…,” “there…,” “there….”

Apple tree: see comments on 2.3. It refers to a place of lovemaking. A footnote may be required to indicate this sense.

I awakened you: the verb is the same as in verse 4 (and all the other examples of this refrain). It carries the idea of awakening someone from sleep. Though some commentators relate its meaning to “arouse,” it is not explicitly sexual. A general word like awakened or “roused” is adequate. In translation we can say “I roused you from sleep when you were under the apple tree” or “I woke you when you were sleeping under the apple tree.”

There your mother was in travail with you: this is the first of two parallel clauses, each beginning with the adverb There. It presumably refers back to the phrase “under the apple tree.” However, some believe There speaks of the house to which the couple are walking. It is not obvious from the text that they are walking somewhere, and so this must be considered an overinterpretation. The connection between the apple tree and lovemaking is clear in this setting.

Was in travail with you is the attempt of Revised Standard Version to render the Hebrew root, which can mean “get pregnant” as well as “give birth,” but not travail (as Revised Standard Version, New English Bible). The following clause contains a different verb, which is the more precise and recognized term for giving birth. In Psa 7.15 the two verbs occur in association with each other, meaning “conceive” and “give birth” respectively. Therefore “conceive” should be used here in place of in travail with: “it was there that your mother conceived you.”

There she who bore you was in travail repeats the adverb there for parallel effect. She who bore you parallels the noun phrase “your mother.” It is the subject for the verb referred to above (Revised Standard Version travail) that should be rendered “conceived.” For the verb here we can also say “she who gave birth to you.” We can give its meaning as “[there] she who conceived you gave birth to you,” “[there] she gave you birth,” or “[there] you were born.”

Notice that Good News Translation combines both these parallel clauses into one and simply says “in the place where you were born.” The meaning is not lost, but combining phrases like this sacrifices some of the Hebrew poetic balance and expressiveness.

We have little trouble in determining what the individual clauses mean, but it is difficult to know what the point of this whole passage is. Does it mean the mother conceived and gave birth under the apple tree? Even if the mother conceived her child there, it is not very likely that she would actually give birth to a child under the tree. We cannot be sure of the precise meaning of this half of the verse, so we are forced to render the text as it stands. For translation we can say:

• Under the apple tree I woke you,
There where your mother conceived you,
There where she gave birth to you.

Quoted with permission from Ogden, Graham S. and Zogbo, Lynell. A Handbook on the Book of Song of Songs. (UBS Helps for Translators). New York: UBS, 1998. For this and other handbooks for translators see here .

SIL Translator’s Notes on Song of Songs 8:5

Section 8:5–14

Love has great power

In this final section, there are many key words and statements that repeat themes from earlier parts of the Song. For example, 8:5a mentions the woman coming up from the wilderness, as in 3:6. The author also repeats the themes of vineyard (8:12; 1:6), orchard (8:5; 2:3), and garden (8:13; 4:12–5:1). In the final verse of the Song, the author repeats the theme of a gazelle on the mountains, which was mentioned in 2:17. This final section also contains what many scholars consider a climax of the Song in 8:6–7.

Some other headings for this section are:

Homecoming (New Revised Standard Version)
-or-
The Young Woman’s Love for Her Beloved

8:5–7 The woman spoke about the power of love

In this unit the speakers, location, and topic change (from the previous unit 8:1–4). But it is uncertain exactly how 8:5 relates to 8:6–7 and the rest of the Epilogue.

8:6–7 is a climax and conclusion of the Song, as it describes the great power of love.

8:5a–b The women of Jerusalem spoke

The women of Jerusalem probably spoke in 8:5a–b. Since both the man and the woman were coming up from the wilderness, it is unlikely that either of them was the speaker.

8:5a

Who is this coming up from the wilderness: In Hebrew the clause here in 8:5a is identical to 3:6a. The Hebrew word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as this is feminine and refers to the woman. For example:

Who is this young woman coming from the wilderness? (God’s Word)

See the notes on 3:6a for further discussion. As with the question in 3:6, this question is probably rhetorical. It helps to draw attention to the woman. In some languages it is more natural to translate this rhetorical question as a statement or exclamation. For example:

What a ⌊wonderful⌋ woman this is who is coming up from the wilderness…!
-or-
Look at this ⌊beautiful⌋ woman coming from the wilderness!

this: The word this refers here to the woman, as it did in 3:6. In 3:6 she was coming as a bride to her wedding, so some versions may refer to her there as a bride. Since the focus is different here in 8:5, it is good to refer to her in a more general way in this verse. For example:

this young woman (God’s Word)

coming up from the wilderness: The phrase coming up from the wilderness may refer back to 7:11–13. Those verses indicate that the woman wanted the man to go with her to the countryside. The text may imply that they went there and now in 8:5 they are returning to their home. However, this is not certain. In most languages it is fine to translate this phrase as you did in 3:6a.

8:5b

leaning on her beloved: The Hebrew phrase that the Berean Standard Bible translates as leaning on her beloved implies that the woman trusts the man and depends on him. It also implies that the man and woman love each other.

In some languages a phrase like leaning on may wrongly imply that the woman was tired or injured, so she needed to lean on the man. If that is true in your language, use a different phrase that will not imply that. For example:

walking close to her beloved
-or-
with her arm around her beloved (God’s Word)

In some languages there is a special way to describe this. For example:

arm in arm with her lover (Good News Translation)

Use a natural way in your language to describe a couple walking affectionately together.

leaning: The Hebrew word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as leaning occurs only here. Scholars are not certain exactly what it means, but it implies here that the woman walked with the man in a way that showed trust and affection. Use a natural way to imply that in your language.

8:5c–7 The woman spoke to the man

Scholars have different views about who spoke in 8:5c–7. Some versions identify the speaker with a heading. Some other versions do not identify the speaker. The main interpretations are:

(1) The woman spoke. For example, the New International Version identifies the speaker as:

Beloved (New International Version)

(2) The man spoke. For example, the New Jerusalem Bible identifies the speaker as:

Lover (New Jerusalem Bible)

It is recommended that you follow option (1). The Hebrew text indicates that someone was speaking to a male, which implies that the woman was speaking to the man. She and he were the ones whom the crowd mentioned in 8:5a–b.

8:5c

I roused you under the apple tree: This clause implies that the man was under an apple tree, and the woman woke him up. The word roused may have two meanings here. It may indicate that she woke the man from sleep, and it may also imply that she caused him to have feelings of love for her. Some ways to translate the clause are:

• Use a general phrase that can imply either that she woke him from literal sleep or that she caused him to feel romantic love for her. For example:

I aroused you.
-or-
I awakened you ⌊to love⌋.

• Use a specific phrase that implies that she aroused the man’s desire to express love toward her. For example:

I stirred up your passions. (Contemporary English Version)

Use a natural way in your language to imply that the woman caused the man to realize that he felt romantic love for her. (Also see the discussions of the verbs “arouse” and “awaken” in 2:7c–d and 8:4.)

the apple tree: In this verse it is likely that the apple tree is a symbol for love. It may also refer to a literal apple tree. The fragrance and sweetness of the apple and other fruits are often associated with love in the Song. In 2:3a–b, the woman compared the man to an apple tree.

An apple tree is mentioned three other times in the Song (2:3, 5; and 7:8). It only occurs two other times in the whole OT. You should use the same term to refer to the apple tree in all of these verses.

8:5d

there your mother conceived you: There are two ways to interpret the Hebrew word that the Berean Standard Bible translates as conceived in 8:5d:

(1) It refers to the effort (labor) and pain that a woman experiences in giving birth to a child. For example:

There your mother was in labor with you. (English Standard Version)

(2) It refers to conceiving a child. For example:

there your mother conceived you (New International Version)

It is recommended that you follow option (1), along with a majority of English versions. See the following note on 8:5e for translation examples.

8:5e

there she travailed and brought you forth: The phrase brought you forth refers to “your mother” in 8:5d. However, it makes explicit that her labor pains were successful and she gave birth to him.

Some ways to translate 8:5d–e are:

It was there that the pains of childbirth came to your mother and she gave birth to you.
-or-
where your mother gave you birth, where in great pain she delivered you. (New Living Translation (2004))
-or-
There your mother went into labor with you. There she went into labor and gave birth to you! (God’s Word)

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Verse: Song of Solomon 8:5